?

Log in

Journal Friends Calendar Profile View Website Previous Previous Next Next
Inclarity on the concept - Habemus plus vis computatoris quam Deus
Ramblings of a Unix ronin
unixronin
unixronin
Inclarity on the concept
Output (51) || Input
Comments
(Deleted comment)
Tom Kratman From: Tom Kratman Date: December 28th, 2011 02:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't know that it is usual, though it's certainly been done, notably by Moslems (kinda) and by the Spanish who understudied them for five or six centuries. I say "kinda" for the Moslems because they used force only to set things up / take control / disadvantage non-reverts. If they ever said, "convert (revert) or die," it was mostly or entirely toward pagans. The Spanish, on the other hand, felt no compunctions about forcing conversion. They didn't seem even to care if the people concerned had any idea of what they were converting to, or even that they were converting at all.

Even there, though, whether it was Monophysites in Egypt or sundry non-Aztec Indians in Mexico, most conversion was voluntary, if not necessarily all that faith based. I recall reading of an Irish Catholic landowner who converted to Protestantism. When asked why, he answered to the effect of, "600 acres of the best land in..." whatever county it was, which he could not have kept had he not converted.
unixronin From: unixronin Date: December 28th, 2011 03:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
[...] most conversion was voluntary, if not necessarily all that faith based. I recall reading of an Irish Catholic landowner who converted to Protestantism. When asked why, he answered to the effect of, "600 acres of the best land in..." whatever county it was, which he could not have kept had he not converted.

And how, exactly, is that voluntary? "You have a free choice whether to convert or not. But if you don't, we'll take your home, your land and your livelihood."

That doesn't sound very voluntary to me.
Tom Kratman From: Tom Kratman Date: December 28th, 2011 04:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's not libertarian-voluntary, no. Nor do I think I suggested it was. But there was a choice that was better than "convert or die." The point was that people who convert may well do so for purely financial reasons, or for reasons of social position and mobility.
unixronin From: unixronin Date: December 28th, 2011 05:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
True, it's better than conversion at swordpoint.
Output (51) || Input